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We i can see people are joining from all over the world we have some people from india saudi arabia cool some people from uh from denmark too i'm joining from copenhagen today and i think we can start so welcome everyone and thank you so much for joining us today i'm really glad you could make it i'm martin from sonic minds and i'm going to be your host today i'm going to be also moderator so i'm going to be asking questions at the end of this webinar but let's be honest you are not here for me today's session is basically all about something that most marketeers know matters but very few of them have a strategy to actually approach it we are talking about sound today specifically about how brands that get it right aren't just being heard but they're being remembered trusted and chosen we are going to be with you today for 45 minutes please do drop your questions in the q a blog which you can see on the on the right side of your screen and at the end of the webinar we're going to have a dedicated q a section basically where we're going to ask all these questions and leave some space for for you guys before we dive in uh let me introduce also the two people who made this session possible the first of them is jainil mori audio branding specialist and sonic minds and our local experts for today jainil brings a sharp understanding of how sonic branding principles apply in the indian market specifically which i know is uh probably very relevant for many of you watching today jainil welcome it's a great to have you here uh thank you thank you so much martin for the wonderful introduction uh excited to what we have in store and uh yeah cool and our other speaker today uh is joining us is uh carsten kims award-winning audio branding specialist and founder of sonic minds carsten has spent more than 20 years working at intersection of sound and brand strategy helping brands across the world build sound identities carsten so glad you are here today thank you for having me here i was so glad that you made this invitation for me jainil and we'll be happy to to join you on this engaging talk today thank you perfect uh so let's not waste any more time here uh so over to you both and uh stage is yours yeah i would like to start out with our philosophy it's um it's very close to my heart this is actually me listen to um a wonderful place in sweden where i often attend to and this is one of the only places uh i i can hear nothing no human made sounds and why is that so important that's because i believe that in today's world humans are being getting exposed to so many sounds throughout the day and it's stressing a lot because we can close our eyes but we cannot close our ears so we have this leading star in something minds that we always look at when we work with clients and projects and that is when we break the silence it must create more meaning than the sounds itself otherwise we're just making noise so it's very important for me to share this because i think silence is a base layer we all look into and just because we can make a sound in a product in an app in a ux situation doesn't necessarily mean that we should have a sound so i'm really trying and inviting people to get more conscious about the use of sound how we express ourselves and brand in sound and music because it's such an important thing for the wellness of our lives but also in terms of communication sound is not decoration it's a performance multiplier it's a emotional baseline of how you sound today and we choose and evaluate a lot more with our ears than we think as well as with our eyes so this is the leading star and i really hope that you all can recognize yourself in this kind of philosophy and with that said i'd like to leave the torch to you janil to move on thank you carsten uh for sharing our philosophy of how sound has really become an invisible but a more intentful layer in today's time where we are exposed to so much of noise the right sound has to be there so that it cuts through the noise and really has an emotional impact on us so let me quickly uh take everyone through the agenda what we have in store for today first we'll quickly go through the psychology of sound how it operates at the most fundamental level the evolution of sounds in the past century and the world's mind and what brands have done over that decade and how have they leveraged the same then we'll speak about what exactly is audio or sonic branding uh the definition and uh what comprises uh the sonic elements that we speak of today then we'll go through some interesting frameworks and case studies uh that are that will be valuable key takeaways for you uh that you can use yourself to audit your brand sonically and then we'll dive a little bit into what the future holds uh in terms of sonic branding before we start i'd like to do a very small exercise uh i want you to hear this sound and open your chat boxes and tell me what comes to your mind after that let me just play the sound here so i'd like to get some input from you guys what do you what beverage is it that comes to your mind when you hear this sound uh i'll reiterate it's the beverage so uh what exactly is it that comes to mind if you can type in your answers you can type in your mind when you're talking about the drink yes we see coke pavitra that's a very strong association that we have yeah it really works uh sensory appeal really goes to wanting for a drink there so yeah uh if the if you if you thought of a cola and the brand which i'm thinking you're probably thinking of is coca-cola then the brand has done a great job at making a simple association in your brain that fizz is equal to cola right there are a lot of other things that fizz there's lemon soda there's there's ginger ale but those things don't come to our mind right because the brand has done an excellent job at making priming a mind to associate that sound with cola and have changed the entire mental category for us so to really understand how quickly we have made this association i would like to dive a little bit deeper as to how we are processing it so that when you're deploying your brand sound you know exactly what's going on in your customer's mind so there are basically six stages to this how exactly your brain processes the sound the first is attention the sound has to cut through the noise and reach your amygdala your emotional brain so that it registers the sound so the first is the initial millisecond or the first second where the sound really enters your brain the second is emotion whenever we hear a sound it evokes an emotion it can be calm it can be anxious it can be excited right and whenever this emotion is evoked our brain scrambles to search for meaning they try to tie it to meaning for example let's think of a transaction sound you have made a transaction on upi app you hear the sound you attach the meaning okay the transaction is complete my equation with the seller here of the transaction is complete and i am done with it now this is the interesting part here all these three things that happen when the sound is played it gets stored in your memory so the next time you hear the transaction sound the pathway becomes stronger so it gets to your attention it evokes an emotion you attach a meaning so the more you hear the sound the stronger the neural pathway gets and the stronger it gets it gets more encoded in your memory that's why when you are making a transaction the next time you don't really need to look at the screen because the sound has done the job it has told you that the transaction is complete and your work is done the fifth stage is a very simple mere exposure effect it is scientifically proven that the more you are exposed to a particular visual sound or any sensory asset the more you tend to trust it because your brain recognizes this is something familiar this is something safe as a reptilian brain suggests us and that's why you trust the sound more and more so whenever a brand sound gets changed you're you're just taken aback is this the sound of confirmation what is this exactly because you're trying to scramble again that emotion is the work but what is the meaning to that what should i store in my memory right and the last is action where you are driven to take that action it can be that tap it can be the uh affirmation that the transaction is done so this is how it's going in the mind janil yes if you go one back please i just want to ask you a question perhaps but also mention a little comment here as you can see this beautiful flow if the meaning doesn't fit the action then the whole chain of you know it gets broken so it's very important that at this stage that if the sound doesn't fit the situation or doesn't make meaning to the user then you won't get the other parts and people might get confused um so let's say you you were trying to making approval sound but people get confused this doesn't sound approved or confirmation then you don't get the memory you don't get the trust and you don't get the action so that's why it's so important that you make sure that the the sound is making meaning in the context yep uh each each touch point is as equal to make uh that emotional impact uh heading on uh before we get into what exactly is the science of sonic branding i have a quick question for the audience there is a 300 year old mozart piece a very famous classical piece and it has become one of the most recognizable brand sounds today uh i would like to ask the audience if they can think of the brand that comes to the mind it's a sound that uh the indian audience uh is the indian diaspora is very familiar with it's a sound which the brand is using since the last 30 years and has been consistently doing so uh you might have it in your minds it's titan so let me just play two ad campaigns for you they are exactly around 30 years apart but you can notice how this rich emotional texture of the sonic elements they've made are still intact all right let me just uh play that ad film for you uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh so this is the first film that was released in the 1990s and i'll just play a 2022 ad film uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh po addition Alexis Chinese a strategic use of sound, it's a strategic use sound to reinforce a brand's identity. Titan has stood for timelessness, elegance, sophistication, which they've always brought out the sonic identity. As you notice, the sound is different. One is a piano version, one is a mechanical version. The DNA, the tune remains the same, but the adaptation to it changes with every story, with every campaign that they set out. This is the second most important thing, that it involves creating an ownable and dynamic auditory signature. Ownable because once you hear the tune, you know it's Titan. The cognitive familiarity is already there, you know it's a brand Titan, it's going to say something, so it evokes that nostalgic response in you. And it creates a long-term recognition among the consumers across multiple touch points. If you saw the audience for both the campaigns was very different. In the first one, they were targeting millennials who were at the time of marriage, in the second one it was two Gen Z audiences that were exploring a city. So you can see how it expands to different audiences at different points of time, and it can also be used across multiple touch points. Like for example, a smaller snippet of it is used by Titan across retail stores to emotionally gain more trust amongst its consumers. Now we'll quickly go through how sound has evolved in India over the past century, how and how have brands taken note of it. So it first started with the birth of radio in the 1930s. The first mass market medium from one source to the audience, which had a 98% penetration across the country. People used to come together to sit and listen to the radio at the same time. So the touch point was radio and the brands, how they leveraged it was they launching jingles, which became earworms of brands and they used to sponsor shows. So the brand involvement was limited to sponsoring, but it was the first sonic touch point for a brand to ever have. In the 1960s, the story got more visual. We came with the television and some of the iconic campaigns that we know from India today, which are Hamara Bajaj or Pepsi with Sachin Chandulkar, really saw the visual coming to life. So jingles with video and TV and cinema were the dominant platforms. This is an interesting era because in the first two times, the sound was more passive. You're consuming the sound, it's coming to you, but you're not able to interact with it. That's when phones came in and India had a huge wave where the tunes of Nokia connecting people, the tunes of Airtel became synonymous with what they were providing. Nokia became synonymous to the headset that was there and Airtel became synonymous to the network provider. Then came the digital spectrum, which led to an explosion of apps across the internet from YouTube to UPI apps. Consumers were getting more attention deficit. Our attention was pondered across multiple touch points. Firstly, there was your phone, but then there's a whole multitude of touch points from the internet, from video calling to other places. So our attention really got divided and brands understood this and they created shorter and more sharper sounds. They started with grand anthems and they moved to Sonic logos. Today, that burst has become even bigger as we see that there are a lot of touch points across the funnel from podcasts, OTT, streaming apps, right? So across these multiple touch points, sound becomes an invisible but a bigger layer which has to be consistent so that a customer is able to recognize your brand at each touch point, right? If your brand is different at different touch points, that trust is going to fumble a bit because they don't really know who you are. If we think of one sharp insight that has been passed on through the century is that any medium that has been come, for example, I speak about All India Radio, I speak about Doordarshan, I speak about Netflix, the Trudum sound. All these brands have come with a meaning which is larger than the brand itself. Let me explain. When Netflix came, they were with the revolution of that you can have the cinematic experience at home. When Doordarshan came, it was about uniting a democratic India. When All India Radio came, it was about the first news of the day, what is happening in the world around you, right? So all these brands infused the medium with a sonic signature and with that sonic signature, they infused it with a particular emotion which made it easy for brands to come to the medium and then deploy their own sonic identities. Coming to the current sonic landscape, fast forwarding to 2026, here is a chart which really summarizes what's been happening today. This snippet is from Ipsos Research where they have analyzed assets. Here the DBS stands for Distinctive Brand Assets. So if you see at the center are all the distinctive brand assets from brand characters, jingles, the product shapes, the design, the celebrities, the taglines that are used. So if you see that the usage of all these brand assets that we have are much in different proportions, for example, the logos are used extensively, while the sonic cues are used the least. But if you see the paradox, which is here that the most used one is not the most effective. Sonic cues which are under leveraged are the one of the most effective touch points that you can have today, right? And when are they effective? When all the touch points across all the touch points, we have a sonic brand that is consistent across all the layers. And for that, I will want to show you an example. And I'd like to hand the presentation to Karsten, where he'll take you through a brand example of how a consistent sonic identity across such points can enhance that trust. Over to you, Karsten. Karsten, I think your mic is turned off. It is. Thank you, Janil. I think it was interesting on the slide before Janil, that if you go one back on the IPSAS research, we can also see that only 6% are using sonic cues and 14% are using brain characters and jingles as well, only 80%, even though it's so much effective. So there's a huge gap there between what is working and what does brands still think is working, but not so effective in a way. So thank you for sharing that research. And what I can see is that we see more and more data and research papers coming out that sound is so effective in all kinds of ways. It's probably also why that we see more and more brands using sound so cheekily. And that's also why I want to present you this case here with the Danish client. If you move on, Janil. It's the national Danish railroad company. It's called DSB. And we were so lucky that we won an international award for this, for the most cohesive brand. And they started out with this order logo, which consists of three notes, D, E flat and BB, as it says. So if you ever come to Denmark, Copenhagen, and you travel by train, you will hear that three notification sound before all stations and it announces next stop, Copenhagen, next stop, whatever. Then as Janil shared that the audio media landscape has evolved a lot. So now we don't have products. We have apps. We have in-store sound. We have apps. We have social media communications. We have all kinds of stuff. So what we did here, we took that core sound and developed into a unique cohesive audio design system where those three notes always is played in some different ways. A little bit like the example that Janil showed earlier. So if you move on to the next slide, please. How we work in Southern Minds is we always look into where can the sound be deployed with the most effects and also ask what emotion is it we want to create in this situation here. So when we create audio identities, we create what we call a flexible audio design system. It's very much similar to a visual design system where you have primary colors, secondary colors, you have bold, you have light colors, light fonts. So it's a whole ecosystem that beautifully can blend together. So for this client here, the key for this brain is E flat. So when we make a track, we make sure that all the different elements can be played and blended together. We call it flexible consistency. So if you kindly can play the product sound for this client here, the three notes here, Janil. So these three notes here are actually a symbol of, in Danish words, it's called DSB. So the notes are actually the symbol of the brand DSB. That's how these three notes are pronounced in Danish. So we took that three notes and make it into a harmonious system. And if you play the parts section, this is just one part of a musical piece where these three notes are embedded into the music piece very elegantly. So please play the parts section here, Janil. As you can hear, we started this piece of part with the notes, but it could also be embedded later in the section. I think actually, Janil, if you mute your microphone, the music will be better played in the audience here. So if we try to please play the, just to show the example here, it's kind of like a sampler. If you play the parts and then the layers, and then on top of that, you play the product sound, Janil, just to show an example, how we can just randomly play music on top of each other, and it still sounds good. So you can see that there are many different options to use for different social media campaigns. It could be 10 seconds, or 30 seconds, or a 60 seconds piece of that music. But that gives the flexibility you need today as a brand to communicate, because just one fixed version of your order logo won't cut through the noise today. You need to make sure that the sound is correctly played in different media in the app, in the train, in the social media campaign, in store, whatever. So that's the flexible consistency. As you can see here, this client also have an app here. And that's becoming very important for many clients here. That we see many big brands today are all being reduced to an app. In old days, they had a store, you went into a bank, you showed the whole building, you met with the employees there. But today, a lot of the interaction is just done through an app. And that's reducing to only two senses. That's hearing and seeing. So if the user usability and user experience in that app is either annoying, or cheap, or confusing, then the brand will be experienced as annoying, or sounds cheap, or confusing. So to create this cohesive landscape and to harvest the sound that is always well embedded into the Danish environment, we made the notification sound into the app an extension of the product sound. So please play the app sound here as well, Janil. So you can hear if you play the product sound again, Janil. It's a shorter version of the product sound. So because in the app, you typically just need to confirm, yes, I got the ticket. I'm safe to travel the train now, so I won't get a fine. So these small notification sounds, as Janil talked earlier, is also confirmation, and then, you know, creates the trust. So based on these three notes, we have built a huge audio design system today that consists of more than a thousand distinct brand assets for TikTok campaigns, app sounds. If you please move on to the next slide, Janil, as well. So today, the app is actually the most important brand touchpoint for DSB. It's the platform where they have the highest revenue. So it's very important that this app is convenient, easy to understand. So please try the buy tickets app here, Janil. So you can also check in again, if you need to change the chain. So you can hear all these sounds are designed from the same sound pool, so to say, and create this cohesive audio identity. And if you ever come to Denmark, I'm sure you'll recognize the sound if you ever go over the train or download the app and buy a ticket. And this is just a short example of how we produce audio identities based from a minimal core and then build out your full extension. And on our website, you can see and hear more of the film cases here. We don't have time for that today. But I hope this gave you a demonstration of our insight about how we can deploy a user, an audio identity into a full audio design system. Thank you. Thank you, Karsten, for taking us through the modular sound system that we have created for DSB. It's very interesting to see how one sound has been adapted across multiple touch points. Going ahead with one interesting framework of how you can audit your brand sound. Your brand sound is currently out there in the market, and you're wanting to evaluate how it's testing across all the consumer cohorts that you have. There are five steps that are largely here to check and audit your brand. Whatever your brand stands for, right? You have certain values or personality traits that are tuned to your brand. Does that sound really stand on that emotion? Is the first brand fit test that you need to do. Going second with the appeal. For example, with Titan, we saw that there is a watch, the mechanical watch, which is adhering to the younger cohort. Then we have the Titan Raga, the Titan Sonata, which is adhering to the older cohort. So does your brand sound, if it's dynamic or whatever the sound is, is it appealing to the right audience cohort that you're targeting to? The third is coherence. Is your sound being adapted as per different formats? In a campaign, the sound is upbeat, but in the retail, is the sound more slower and more poignant to help you make that decision. As in retail environments, you need sound which is more with the flow and with the or ambience environment. And the fourth is recoil. Once you play your sound without the visual to your consumer, are they able to recall it? If they are able to, that's a great start because already it's been embedded in the memory and there's already an emotional response that they have in your brand. So you have got the mind space, which is one of the best assets a marketer can have. I'd also like to share one small Sonic strategy framework that we've created here. It's about mapping a customer's need state, the mind state that they are in and the touch points they're going through. Here, there are four need states that I have taken in account. One is compliance, where you are expecting the customer to lower their guards and comply with what you are asking them to do. I will take you through an example for the same. The second is connection. This is an interesting window because the mental availability of the customer is pretty higher. So there is more space and more ground to express your sound in different ways. The third is transition. Here, the customer is moving from one mind state to another. And that is where the sound can play the role of telling the user that, hey, you know, we are moving to the next step. And the fourth is assurance. Now, this four aspects can be changed as per our industry. And an example to find a talk about here is the touch points. It may not be very much visible on the slide itself. So let me just take quickly take you through them. For compliance, the seatbelt sign switch on sound is a very crucial sound because the passenger has to adhere to that sound to put on the seatbelt and not get applied. They have to be very alert and attentive during the safety and the emergency instructions. So these are the moments when you are expecting compliance from them. Connection. This neat state is when, as I said, the mental availability is higher. Introduction of the cabin crew. There's a farewell announcement. What baggage number you can find your bag. The moment when you are in the bus going to the aircraft and coming back to collect your luggage. These are the moments when the mental availability is the highest as your mind is not occupied. The third is transition. When the airplane is ready for takeoff, that announcement by the pilot followed by a sound or before the sound. Food serving announcement that, okay, now we've taken off. We're in the air. Everything is stable. Seatbelt sign is off. And now the food will be served. And prepare for landing. So all these three stages are where the passenger needs to know that they're transitioning from one state to another and sound can play an important role. And the fourth, which is a very category essential for the category of airlines is assurance, where turbulence announcements to delay in takeoff and landing are something which needs to be communicated with more careful consideration. So this is a small framework of need states and touch points of a journey that you can map to really sonically audit your brand and make the first step towards crafting an audio strategy. So yes, that is about it in terms of the presentation. But before that, we'd like to speak a little bit about the future of sonic branding and what it holds for us. The first is revisiting brand meaning. Marketers today have observed that the sounds which were created 50 years ago, brands are revisiting them. Just to give an example, Viko Turmeric and Hero are two FMCG and FMCB brands that have really brought their own original brand anthems and converted them into dynamic formats, which tells us that the brands are going back to the core. That the sound that they want to express has to be bigger than the brand itself. As we spoke about the meaning of all-india radio, connecting people, Nokia, the meaning has to be larger than the brand. And that purpose has to be has to be come out sonically. And the second is of dynamic sonic identity. We are moving in a world of ever increasing touch points and shortening attention spans. So it is very important that in different environments, in different contexts, in different weathers and different circumstances, the sound adapts to us. The noise is just going to increase. The noise is just going to increase. And the more cohesive and invisible and inevitable the sound becomes, the more easier it is for the ears and for you to be able to really get distinct from the other noise in the market. And, yeah, that is about it. You can, we can now open for questions and answers. Karsten, if there's anything you'd like to join in or Martin. Yeah, I can just chip in here, Janil, for presenting, especially with the airline example you showed before, Janil. I think it's interesting to see that this user journey in for an airline, all the sounds played on board for an airline, those are actually free to be played. So many brands are overlooking that in the whole user journey. There's a lot of micro moments where they can play these sounds. You know, you buy the airline ticket, you get onboarding tickets, you hear the notification sound that you should fasten your seatbelt, etc. These micro moments are becoming the most played sounds from any user today, the most highly-frequency played sounds that the user will hear. Because we also see a trend that people don't watch TV commercials active anymore. It's a passive thing. So, suddenly the user journey and the sounds in that user journey are becoming the highest-frequency played sounds. That is, that is where you have the moment to own and create the recognition with your brand, and not only in the paid media. And that's also something we see as a very important stage right now, that you can own the sounds throughout the whole user journey. Great. So, I think I can jump in. As J.R. Neil mentioned, we can jump into Q&A session. But first of all, J.R. Neil, Carsten, thank you for the presentation. That was brilliant. I think we can all agree there's a lot to digest there. Also, after that half an hour. And sound as a strategic asset, not just the creation, that framing alone is something we all will take from this webinar today. As now we have about, Phenomen is actually still space for Q&A. But I can see only three questions lined up so far. So, you can still ask questions in the tab on the right, on your screen. And I've been watching the chat, so I can already move up to ask the first question. It's anonymous. And I can ask a question, and I think it's the question for both of you, Carsten and J.R. Neil. As the most famous identities are from big brands, is sonic branding only relevant for big brands or can smaller brands benefit too? That's a good question. I can start with that. Definitely not. I mean, all brands are using sound today. And so, it's not a matter about should we use audio branding or should we not. If we use sound, you're already doing audio branding. So, the question is more, should we use it effectively and make meaning for the user? Or should we use it unconscious instead of beginning and perhaps disturbing our user journey and making it a bad sound, but also as a liability? So, I think more the question is, okay, we do use sound. What is it we want to communicate with it? What feelings should the user have? What emotions should they have? What actions should we try to invite to when they hear our brand? So, I definitely believe that all brands, even smaller ones, can benefit from sound. Because you cannot not use sound today. It's not impossible as a brand. You might have on-hold music. You might have a product. You might do some social media campaigns. So, good sound is really an valuable brand asset. It becomes equity. Bad sound is a liability. So, you might invest so much in your visual identity and your communication. But if you don't sound as good as you want it to look like, then, as I told before, as Daniel also said, we choose an invaluable. Our brains so fast, if it sounds cheap, this is a cheap brand. And that's where our God feeling comes in. If we hear a brand or a campaign, we say something, hmm, this doesn't sound right. There's just something in our consciousness because it's an accumulation of all senses. We hear it. We see it. We perhaps feel it. Or we read it. And then we make an evaluation of that brand. So, it's part of the whole communication package. So, you cannot not use sound. And even as a small brand, I think it's very important that you really have some kind of awareness. Okay, when we break the silence, what is we want to use the user to think, feel, or do when they hear us? So, no, not only big brands, but also smaller brands. So, then the last follow-up question to that could be, then when should we start? Well, McDonald's started, I think it was 2002 with this da-da-da-da-da sound there. And today, I think they have a recognizability in the world around 70%. So, what is the brand equity of having such a huge recognizability? They didn't have that at the beginning. It's earned over the years. So, even though they paid a million dollars for that in 2002, I think it's priceless today, the value of this. So, if you're a smaller company today, invest in it. And then, as we have seen in these cases here, you can evolve, use the same design system all the time, evolve it into a... So, if it's the content and the communication, that's where you really get the brand value. So, the best time to start with auto-branding was 20 years ago. The second best is today. Thank you, Karsten. You actually answered one of the next questions, which was, where should brands usually start? But they also asked about the process. So, what is the process behind finding a brand's sound? Do you want me to answer that, Daniel? Or do you want to... I think you showed it in the beginning also with the slides here. So, the process is overall that you start to identify, you know, who you need to know who you are as a brand. What is this you stand for? What is your vision? What is your goals here? What is your key attributes? Do you want to be experienced as modern or innovative? Are we bold? Are we human? What is it we want to own in that space? So, when we identify that, we identify the primary key attributes. And then we convert those into meaningful soundscapes that we believe expresses these attributes the best. And based on that, we create a design system so the whole user journey can use elements from these sounds in a meaningful way. And that has become more complex. As Janil showed earlier, in the old days, there was only radio and that was it. Now we have apps, radio, TV, in-store, social media campaigns. Product sounds has become more and more important because these are the ones people hear daily. If you're driving an e-car or driving an e-bike or having in-ears, those small notification sounds, every day you turn it on or you volume up or your coffee machine, whatever, that becomes the brand sounds, the voice of the brand. So, it's so important that even those micro sounds are connected to your brand. Otherwise, you won't create brand equity. So, it all starts with the, it can come from two places. Either as a top-down where the CEO of a bigger company say, we want an audit entity deployed from top-down. Or it can come from bottom-up where you say, now we have this app here. Or now we have this campaign. We want to start from here and then, you know, spread it out to the whole company. So, it can go two ways from top to down or from bottom to up, depending on where is the brand and what is the need right now. So, it's an ongoing process. Please fill in, Janil. That's some great insight on the brand lens, Karsten. And that top-down or bottom-up approach that you go for. Just to add to what Karsten added, the category and the consumer can also be, have a lens on. For example, we all know the delivery sounds, right? For example, there's Zomato. So, they have really chalked out the sounds of their bike, the kitchen sounds, everything in the ecosystem to understand what are the sounds of the ecosystem. Not only just to understand how the tempo of the category is, but what are the different sounds that people are familiar with. So, using and understanding that category landscape is pretty important. And the second to add, as also Karsten mentioned, is consumer. What are they looking for when it comes to delivery? They're looking for speed. They're looking for convenience. They're looking for that magic when it comes to doorstep, right? So, the brand lens, the category and the consumer are three must have considered touch points to evaluate. I very much agree. Yeah. I hope this answers your questions out there. Feel free to answer me again or ask me again. Thank you very much. We have three more questions from our audience. The first one is from Yashri. With social media users remixing and sharing audios, is it advisable to... Wait a second. I can also show you the question here. This one is from Rijeramu. Yeah. Interesting how you demonstrated blending different versions of the same sound for different touch points. But for a new user, since all these sounds seem different, how does it create an identity, unlike Netflix to them, which has become the only sound the brand associates with? Yeah, I understand the question. It's a really good question. And to understand the history of DSB, you must understand that the first time the sound was played was in 1984. More than 40 years ago. So, the Danes, the population of Denmark has heard this sound since 1984. So, everybody who has traveled with the train knows the sound. And then suddenly, 2006, the iPhone came, social media came, you know everything about that. So, how do we take this recognizability from the train into the whole digital space? So, it's very important that you start with the core and you stick to it for a long time, because if you change it too fast, then people get confused. Who was that? So, you only need to change. Also, as Janiel showed with the other Indian brand, you don't just need to change because you can, it has to make meaning. And I also say to many of our clients, when we or the client and us are about to puke to hear the same sound, the user might just have to learn it or recognize it. So, repetition always beats creativity. And that creates trust. And again, if your sound is playing too often, you can also annoy people. Actually, we had this slogan in Skedneva, Nokia disturbing people, not connecting people, because this ringtone sound... ... ... was played too much. It was too long. And they didn't make it flexible at all. It only came in one length. So, that means, yes, if I were to hear that sound just because I got an SMS, a small notification sound, it would be too much notification, too much information. So, that's very important that you understand that when should we have a long version of the diddling or the la la la... ...when it's allowed to do that. And that's also why Netflix has two different intros. They have this short, ta-dum. But when they have primary premiere on a film, they use the long one made by Hans Zimmer, which is also, I think, is around 15 seconds. It's a build-up. And then comes the ta-dum, which is fine. But if you're watching a series on Netflix, I don't want the long version every time because, yes, I know I'm in Netflix. Don't play the long version because I know I'm already seeing Netflix. So, it's understanding that when should we alter it, when should we use the long version, when should we use the short version. And also understanding how well integrated and adapted is the sound already within our users. Do they really recognize this? Because before you start altering and making new evolutions, you need to make sure that it's already established as a recognizable asset. So, I hope this answers the question. What do you think, Daniel? Do you have anything to add to that question? No, you sounded pretty well about the compounding effect and the Netflix example was bang on in terms of them using different versions for different environments where it can adapt to. Yes, thank you very much. Let me get back to Yashui's question. Here it is. With social media users for mixing and sharing audios, is it advisable to include your brand's sound in social media? Also, is there a way to take advantage of social media using sonic branding? I would say very much yes. If you can actually, I mean, there are different brands who also said, here's our audio identity. Please use it. And they gave it out to the users so they can make new versions and new remixes of it. I think it was Coca-Cola who sponsored the Olympics for 20 years ago. And they said to different artists, you can play whatever song you want just as long as it has the notes within that sound. So there could be a hip hop version, a classical version, a samba version, whatever. So it's also a way to make it viral. So if you have this unique sound within your brand, you can also give it out to the users on TikTok to make different versions of it. We also saw that actually for a Danish client, DSB. There was this guy who made a version of that and it went viral on TikTok. And then DSB came to us and said, let's answer this guy. And so we made a new version for him on TikTok. So suddenly it became this, you know, interactive way of using sound. And that's why it's so powerful because music is such a strong identifier for who we are and how we communicate. And it's, if it's a brand who can do that thing, I don't think, you know, a bank could do that or an insurance company, perhaps it could. But less your brands like, you know, SoftRings or whatever, they definitely have this opportunity to use sound as a tool to make Spotify playlists, making events using artists, collaboration, etc. So there's a huge potential in that as well. Yes. Janiel, what do you think? Do you have any comments to the question? Yes. Thanks, Yashvi, for that question. In terms of like, we've seen that wave right now on Instagram right now, as every brand wants to have that tremendous reach and using that audio from other reels or other brands, it makes it relatable to your audience. But I think the important question to ask here is that in all the clutter and all the mind numbering, thumb stopping behavior that we have, how does the person know that it's you? Right. So some brands are now using intro sounds and outro sounds to tell the audience that, hey, you're listening to Volkswagen right now, whatever the messaging can be. So in this clutter, does your sound is unique enough to make the users feel, OK, it's coming from this sound. And is it important in such a cluttered medium? So once that objective is set as the what the brand wants to achieve with social media, then it becomes much clearer. And as as Karsten said, as for the touch point, the sound has to be customized. So, yeah, definitely that that would really help. Yes, thank you very much, both of you. Let's move to another question from Pavitra. With brands having to evolve so quickly today, how does the sonic brand stay relevant over time? I think that's a very common questions we get often. Well, I was in Austin at South by Southwest some time ago and I saw this sign and it's just stuck with me. It says, I'll be interested if you'll be interesting. So if you're saying something interesting, I'll be interested. So that's how you stay relevant. And how can sound stay relevant? Well, if it creates meaning back to your philosophy. If sound doesn't create meaning, then it's just noise. So it's important to understand, you know, always answer the question. When we play a piece of sound and music in this medium, Instagram, TikTok, whatever, what is the purpose of it? How should it support the communication? Do you want people to buy something? Do you want to show them we are cool? Do we want to create some kind of emotion? What is the purpose of this communication? Is it to buy more or say we are saving the world or just to making, hey, we're still good people? So that's where you cannot just use the same sound for all different touch points. So it's always the intent behind it. What is it you want to say with this? Otherwise, we're just making noise. And I think it doesn't only goes with sound. It goes for all kinds of communication. You just raise your hand and say something in the crowd. Why should we listen to you? So then people start ignoring you. So be precise and use sound with intent and also with the other assets. That's where we get interested. Otherwise, we'll just get, oh, now they're talking again. Now they, you know, just open their mouth and start yelling, you know, this branch, you know, you know the humans I'm talking about. What do you do? Well, I don't know what I do. If I see a commercial that just shouts to me, this week we have blah, blah, blah. I mute them because they're shouting at me. They're not interesting. So be relevant. And it's simple, but not easy. But how do you stay relevant? Well, talk to my emotions and make something that's appealing to me. Simple, but not easy. Thank you, Kirsten. Very much. Agree with that. We have one, no, two left questions and we have still four minutes. So I think we're going to have time to answer both. This one is from Charmy. Let me show the question to you. Can Sonic branding be effective for companies having B2B business models where connection with retail users is a minimum? Yeah, I definitely have a saying to that. Is that okay if I comment on this, Daniel? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. You can chip in as well. Honestly, I don't believe so much in B2B or B2C anymore. I think it's human to human. I understand that B2B companies is a different game, but it's still a human you want to communicate to. It's not that I'm a B2B person from 9 to 5. That's where I don't have emotions. But then after 5 o'clock, I suddenly have emotions. We do a lot of audio identities for many B2B companies because it's all about investor relations, attracting the right employees, etc. So it's so important that you also sound right there. Who wants to be anonymous or use stock music for a big corporation? It doesn't appeal to us. So it doesn't really count anymore this B2B or B2C differentiation in my world. It's all about humans. And that's why you cannot really say that as a B2B company, we don't need it. If you look at our website, you see a lot of B2B companies today because sound is such a strong identifier for whom you are as a brain. We can say we are innovative and we are bold, but if you sound cheap or annoying, then the investors don't trust you. Again, investors are also humans. And we also invest, we always, as Janil says, the emotions always overrule the rational. So we choose with our emotions and then afterwards we say with rational, that's what's the best company to go with because the price and deliverables, etc. So we rationalize with the facts, but we choose as well with the emotions. Isn't that right, Janil? What do you think? Yeah, I had an angle to this, that the objective for B2B and B2C will be the same irrespective of what they're offering. For instance, if you are providing a service, you still want to establish that trust. If you are providing, you're selling products, you want to communicate that transparency before that sales numbers start kicking in, right? So the only difference here is the audience that you're catering to. With B2B, it can be the government, the stakeholders, right? Entities at large can wildly differ. But at the same time, both need a sonic emotion to touch across different touch points. So yeah, I think it's important across both the channels, because while the audience is same, the emotional imprinting is similar. Thank you guys. And the last question in the last minute. So it's a good timing. Do you know some other examples of brands in India using sonic branding? I think it's a good question for Janil. So we have seen a lot of sectors investing in sonic branding. Fintech is a very given example in India with MasterCard, which has developed its sonic identity, has also created its roots in India. So you have it deployed across multiple touch points. And from FMCG, there is 7up, which has recently invested and really invested in that fizz and bubbling up sound. There are retail stores that have their own sound, their own ambient soundscape, because they're also pivoting to the D2C section. So there's Reliance Mart, which has also done that. And DMart is also eyeing that category. So yes, these are some examples and Swiggy and Zomato in delivery apps. All right. Janil, could you maybe move first slides to the last slide so we can see your QR codes? Exactly. Yeah, I think we reached the end of today's session. We also wrapped up all the questions for now, at least. If anything pops up, feel free to connect with Janil Carson on LinkedIn. On the screen, you can see two QR codes. So scan it with your phone and connect with guys and or just reach out to us through sonicmindsagency.com. Huge thanks to our speakers, Janil, Carsten, for sharing your time and insights. And of course, to all of you who are joining today and being part of the session. We really appreciate it. And I hope, we hope you got something valuable out of it. So take care, everyone, and I hope to see you soon again, maybe on the next webinars. Thank you so much. Let's try to make this world sound better, all of us. Product by product, brand by brand. Thank you for joining. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.